This article is an extract from the Intermediary Mortgage Lenders Association’s (IMLA’s) equity, diversity and inclusion (ED&I) group meeting in June 2024.
The sessions were created to offer an open and engaging space to discuss aspects of diversity and inclusion (D&I).
The theme of the June session was “embracing diversity” and was led by Atlyn Forde (pictured, left), head of engagement and inclusion at Pepper Money, and Magda Tehrani (pictured, right), recruitment and diversity manager at Kensington Mortgages.
During the conversation, participants shared their experiences relating to ED&I.
To watch the video of the whole session and download the accompanying slides, visit: Lunch and Learn – Working In Mortgages
Forde opened the discussion, saying: “Engaging with issues relating to ED&I can sometimes make people feel uncomfortable. We can encounter new perspectives [that] challenge our own perceptions. We might be unsure how to navigate a situation that involves unconscious bias. Such discomfort is completely normal – in fact, it is a sign that we are growing and opening up to new ways of thinking.
“By acknowledging our own biases and listening to others’ stories, we can cultivate a more inclusive and respectful work environment for everybody.”
Suzanne Johnson-Smith, head of brand and digital marketing at Kensington Mortgages, also on the call, said: “During Covid, a friend of mine, Saba, hosted an online discussion on LGBTQ+ representation in the media. I used to work in advertising, so I could relate to a lot of the things they were talking about, recognising the parallels with ethnic representation. So, I really wanted to join in the conversation and talk about the similarities, but every time I put my hand up to speak, I put it back down again. Because when the others on the call introduced themselves, they would say: ‘my name is so-and-so and I’m butch’ or ‘I’m queer’. I felt uncomfortable because I had thought that language was offensive, and I didn’t want to introduce myself as ‘straight’ in case somebody thought I was making some sort of point. I’m outgoing, I don’t normally fear voicing an opinion, but on that occasion, I worried about saying the wrong thing, and it stopped me joining the conversation.
“As a black person, I had never considered before how difficult conversations about race could be for some parties. People have asked me, ‘Suze, do I say coloured or do I say black?’ I hadn’t thought how hard it must be for them to ask me that question. The experience brought home to me the difficulty of being on the other end of these conversations.
“It made me wonder how many people have felt the same way in difficult conversations. So, I asked Saba to come and speak to us at Kensington about how to be an ally to the LGBTQ+ community. I learned a lot, and others did too. The session was a safe space for everyone to ask questions [that] had obviously been on their minds.”
Martin Brown, head of homebuying and ownership at Bank of Ireland, added: “I was recently taken by surprise and felt very uncomfortable in a ‘skip’ meeting – a one-to-one with someone who works for one of my direct reports. I asked this particular colleague what challenges she was facing. She replied that she was really struggling with her short-term memory and finding work hard, and then proceeded to tell me a deeply personal story about what she was going through, including treatment for cancer and the menopause. I was taken aback by the intimate detail she was sharing with me. Fortunately, she talked for quite a while, which gave me time to absorb what she was saying and ensure that I was listening, being empathetic and engaging with her.
“I actually found it a very useful experience. Had I known where the conversation was going to go, I would have been fearful. I am someone who worries about unintentionally upsetting people, and I can find unfamiliar terminology confusing. The danger is that as a result you can end up not having these personal conversations. But this was a very positive experience that I was grateful for. Actually, having these conversations in the right way and being empathetic moves things along and is really positive, and I will be less fearful in future.
“By nature, I’m not an outgoing person, I’m a datahead. But as a leader, you can’t not join in these conversations. It’s easy to speak out and lead on business issues – on ED&I, I am not on familiar ground. But as anyone managing teams you have to get involved, you have to embrace that discomfort. We have made great policy changes at Bank of Ireland. But we all need to join in the conversations in order to change the culture.”
Tehrani said: “I’ll borrow a quote from Disney’s Cinderella: ‘Be kind, have courage’. When it comes to ED&I issues, kindness is the best starting position. If you have that, then you can’t be accused of disrespecting someone, even inadvertently, by using the wrong language.
“We must have the courage to take part in these conversations, because if we don’t, then we’ll never move the dial on ED&I for the industry as a whole.”
