It’s not just good to talk, it’s essential – Krampah-Williams

An Intermediary Mortgage Lenders Association (IMLA) ED&I Group ‘Lunch and Learn’ session was organised by Helen Harrisson and Paula Dillin from Santander to celebrate International Men’s Day on 19 November.

International Men’s Day has three core themes at its heart: making a positive difference to wellbeing and lives, raising awareness of and/or raising funds for charities that support men and boys, and promoting positive conversations about men, manhood and masculinity.

The group’s members convened to have such a conversation, with four panellists joining me to discuss the issues facing us today and how we can act, personally and collaboratively, to bring about some positive differences.

Speakers:

Stephanie Daley, director of partnerships at Alexander Hall

Sam Dillin, central London business development manager (BDM) at CHL Mortgages

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Jeffrey Krampah-Williams (JK-W): Why do you think International Men’s Day is important?

Gill: If I’m being honest, one of my initial reactions is to feel a bit embarrassed and awkward – why do we, as men, need a special day assigned to us? We’re hardly a downtrodden minority… it sounds a bit superfluous and unnecessary.

But there are two areas I think most men do need some help with; namely, mental health and physical wellbeing.

Mendes: I think International Men’s Day gives us an opportunity to challenge the traditional notions of masculinity, reflect on our own vulnerabilities, emotions and inner struggles, and open up about our feelings rather than bottling them up, which we all know is unhealthy.

Dillin: For me, it is all about breaking away from gender stereotypes – not every man is the same. We all have our own feelings and preferences.

Daley: As a female, the mother of a young son and wife of a man, I think International Men’s Day is all about celebrating positive male role models and explaining why we need them. Across the industry and in family life, there is a huge amount men can do to contribute to society. To me, feminism is about equality for everyone, including men. We have an International Women’s Day, so it’s only right that we have International Men’s Day.

JK-W: Who are the men who have had the biggest influence on you and why?

Dillin: Most recently, my husband. We both share the parenting of our 15-month-old. I’m back at work full-time after nine months of maternity leave, he is working full-time after two months of paternity leave.

The ability to raise a child together seems to be a modern phenomenon. I find it odd at work when people ask who’s looking after the baby… the other parent. I also find it odd when people say you’re lucky to have found a man who is interested in being involved with his own child’s upbringing. It’s not luck – his interest in family was one of the reasons I married him. To me, being a man does not mean leaving your child at home with your wife and expecting to come home to a clean house.

Mendes: My dad and my grandad. They came from humble beginnings in Portugal. My grandad worked in a quarry and couldn’t read or write. My dad, like me, is dyslexic, and he overcame many challenges to build a life in England. Both these men have shown me that you don’t need a degree to be successful in life; success comes through hard work and a positive mindset, being polite, staying humble and developing your own inner strength and character. My dad used to say: “We won’t have an issue if you aim high and miss – but we will if you aim low”. That has really stuck with me. My parents were also great role models and before their time – my dad was the main at-home caregiver for my sister and I, while mum went out and worked full-time.

Dillin: My old boss Monty (Andrew Montlake) has been a hugely positive influence on me. He is always very open, honest and approachable. In previous roles, I hadn’t been able to express my feelings to someone with that much influence. He always says it’s okay to not be okay and that we should talk about our feelings. That is such a refreshing and important approach.

Gill: My dad – he is in his 80s now but was ahead of his time. My mum stayed at home while he was the breadwinner, so theirs was a traditional relationship in that sense. But he was a great cook, and at weekends took us to swimming lessons, taught us to ride bikes. He is partly the reason my brother and I are married to strong women with their own careers, and my sister also has a great career. He had the same expectations for his sons and his daughter, which was unusual for someone born in the 1930s. He still looks after himself in terms of exercise and diet and he’s something of an inspiration for me and my siblings, and also our children.

JK-W: What stereotypical male traits do we need to address?

Gill: We don’t talk to each other enough and we don’t go to see the doctor. These things become increasingly important as we get older.

Daley: Social expectations can be difficult. Men taking on half of the parenting responsibility often still get pressure from their peers and comments from friends – “Why aren’t you coming for beers after work?” – and so on. That can be frustrating and difficult if there is no support network of like-minded men to talk to.

Then there is the issue of ‘toxic masculinity’. I don’t think we see much of it anymore in our industry, though I do still hear of instances of men aggressively dominating conversations. The popularity of Andrew Tate (a social media influencer) is massively concerning. I don’t know where you would start explaining his misogynistic views to teenage boys, especially those without a male role model in their household. One in four UK households are headed by a single parent, 90% of them mums. Some of these young men seeing their role models on Instagram will be the next generation of workers, including young men in our industry. That particular stereotype is so concerning, and that is why International Men’s Day, these sorts of forums and the mentoring that IMLA, Association of Mortgage Intermediaries (AMI) and Working in Mortgages facilitate, are so important.

Mendes: Men are still often seen as providers, not caregivers, with caring and emotional labour seen as more feminine roles. I often see it when I collect the kids from school. Phrases like “real men don’t cry” are still used and perpetuate the idea that men shouldn’t show emotion. I take my nine-year-old boy to football – parents shout at kids from the sidelines to ‘man up’ and not cry if they are tackled hard. We definitely have more to do to change the language.

Daley: If someone told my child to ‘man up’, it would really upset me – we should be raising emotionally sensitive young boys who know how to acknowledge and regulate their emotions and not suppress them, as we know how unhealthy and dangerous that can be.

JK-W: Are stigmas changing?

Gill: My eight-year-old son is captain of his school netball team and absolutely loves it. He has zero concept that it’s anything but a mixed sport. My 14-year-old boy had no opportunity to play netball just five years ago, at the same school. So that is a positive development.

Dillin: Personally, I have always struggled with not being a sporty person. Rugby was forced upon me at school. I found that really hard – I was a stick figure. I don’t watch football, I like my music, and I find it hard to join in conversations about the Premier League, for example.

JK-W: What are one or two things men can do to stay mentally healthy?

Gill: As a 50-year-old, I would say: don’t neglect your friends. It’s very easy to drift. In our 20s, most of us spend a lot of time with friends. Then many people get married, have kids, move further away and it gets harder to stay in touch. But it is so important to make the effort and keep that connection, keep those social contacts going, both for psychological wellbeing and health reasons. At my sort of age, physical problems start arising. I now have at least half a dozen friends, colleagues and peers who have suffered or are suffering from heart issues, cancer and other illnesses. It is very important to talk about these things, both to help people when they are going through it and also to share information and prevent illnesses developing.

Mendes: Remember: healthy body, healthy mind. Working from home can be difficult as there is no buffer period between work and home. We need to make time to do some exercise, get some fresh air. The more you do now to look after yourself, the more it will help in later life, so you can also keep looking after those around you.

Daley: Golf seems to be a big one in our house – the ability to be out in the fresh air for a few hours, either in quiet company or with a group doing lots of talking, can be really beneficial to mental health. Working from home has been a blessing and a curse. I sometimes worry that people can miss out, particularly younger people. It’s important to your career and your wellbeing to get out there, get into your office, speak to your colleagues, go for lunch, go for a beer, take up the invitations to industry events.

Dillin: I agree; getting out there, seeing friends, talking to people is key. A problem shared is a problem halved. I’m constantly telling people how I feel, and it really helps. When I work from home, I am literally in my bedroom – that is my office. So, it’s really important that I try to walk every day in the country park near me. I am tempted to put it off when it’s cold, but being out for just 20 minutes a day is liberating. Going out at lunchtime, you come back with a fresh head.

Gill: I would also add a point about technology. Put your phone down between 8pm and 6am and don’t have it next to your bed. I started doing that a few weeks ago and have enjoyed the difference. It is very freeing and also improves the quality of your sleep.